How To Navigate Your Fertility Journey Using Your Heart (NOT HEAD) & Intuition To Guide You

Sue Dumais

Spence: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Conception Channel Podcast, brought to you by the Being Fertile Program and Yinstill Reproductive Wellness. I am your host, Spence Pentland, and today, I’m really excited to be able to speak with our special guest, Sue Dumais. Welcome to the show, Sue.

Sue: Thanks, Spence, great to be here.

Spence: Awesome. I’m excited. Sue is here today to help people navigate their fertility journey using a heart-led approach or their heart and their intuition to guide them, which so resonates with me and my practice, I love that, Sue, thank you. And some practical take-homes today that she’ll help with on, how to get out of your head and more into your heart, which I’m excited about, because more pearls, more pearls, more actionable items to help people. This is a tough time. Just a little tiny bit of housekeeping, if you haven’t already done so, at the bottom of this podcast page, you can subscribe and be notified whenever new podcasts are posted. We’re also on YouTube, Apple iTunes podcast like I was just telling Sue. And you can leave a review when you’re there, that’d be great. And also Facebook, it’s the Yinstill Reproductive Wellness page. Without further ado, I’m going to give a brief intro to Sue, we’re talking about how to do this because she’s led such a great life, she’s a change-maker, she’s not busy, she’s accomplishing her purpose. Love the framing, but more specifically, her professional profile consists of fertility, yoga instruction, she’s an instructor there and she does teacher training for that as well. She’s a certified intuitive healer, she’s a mind-body specialist, she’s a ministerial counselor. I didn’t know that, that’s interesting. Awesome, Sue. An international author and speaker and Heart Led Living coach and trainer for intuitive coaches. Since we’ve spoken, Sue and I have known each other for years and at times, a lot more than others, and this has been a little gap here, so I’m excited to just spend some time with you because there’s more, more, more.

Sue: There’s a lot that has happened in the last five or ten years.

Spence: That’s great. In honor of these podcasts, I love, like I mentioned, to kind of dive back into your story, kind of introduced the hero and tell everybody a little bit about who you are and where you came from and how you became the person that is helping people in the way

you are today?

Sue: Well, that’s always a bit of a loaded question, because the question is really where do you begin to kind of capture that, but as I teach Heart Led Living, I’ll just drop into my heart and see where to begin from there.

Spence: Perfect.

Sue: When I was a child, I would sit in a room and tap into everybody’s emotions, I would feel their physical pain in their body, but I would also tune into their emotions. And as a child, it was very intense. So, it was very hard for me to be in a room with other people, so I ended up being very much a quiet, shy, little girl, but on the outside, it felt like nothing was happening. Everybody thought I was just Sue, sitting in the corner, watching everybody or hiding over there, and really on the inside, there was so much turmoil going on, not only my own thoughts of my own mind, but everything just coming at me in all different directions. So, my gift as an intuitive healer was something I was born with, and growing up, I actually thought it was a curse, I thought I was being punished, because it was so painful. And I didn’t understand it at. At one point, and it was actually shortly after my fertility journey started, I found myself pregnant, I was very excited. I was thrilled actually to be a mom. And the idea of changing kind of the course of my life was thrilling actually, and it felt really in my heart, like this knowing, like, this is a real part of my path, my heart’s path. And shortly after, I had miscarried. And it was probably the most shocking, I didn’t expect that, but also devastating physically and emotionally, because I had some physical complications from that as well. It took about two years to conceive my son, and in that time, I really had a challenging time getting over my mind chatter and the intensity of what was going on mentally and emotionally for me. With every cycle, it was a rollercoaster. And I had support through acupuncture, I had support through my yoga practice of meditation, and I found that those were really those points of foundation to help me maintain some semblance of peace. And once I conceieved my son, because I had a previous miscarriage, I was still nervous and afraid, and it took about five months into the pregnancy to, like, I could somewhat settle down. Shortly after that, I was really inspired to start teaching yoga for fertility and supporting other women and couples through that because I had found another way to bring myself to peace and I realized that there was so many more women out there that were really struggling and they didn’t have the tools

or the understanding or even the shift in perspective that could actually completely change their experience, so that instead of feeling out of control, they can feel a sense of purpose as they’re moving through their journey. So, it really brought me into this powerful path of my own personal journey, but then also, extending that support and help for other women as well. And I did that through the intuitive healing, but also through the support groups in the fertility yoga as well.

Spence: Wow, yes. Somewhere in that time line is when we met, and I know from a clinical perspective ascent, a lot of women do yoga for fertility in particular. Okay, that was hugely successful, but you’ve moved online and you’ve moved into other elements, so what does your practice look like today? What are you up to exactly? Can you kind of outline that?

Sue: Yeah, my new business is called Heart Led Living. So, it’s kind of evolved organically from what I was doing. I still have the fertility yoga online, but the support has changed in the way of I’m supporting all women and men actually to really find that place within themselves that knows what their path is, that knows what they’re meant to do and then they can take inspired action from there. So, when you can actually get out of the head into the heart and lead from that place, then the steps are given. What I do, is I teach people through the coaching, through meditation and through intuitive healing. I help them kind of remove the blocks in their mind, clear the programming that’s no longer serving, unwind the mind from the fears and the program stuff that we have going on and really get them to tune in to their heart and trust it, trust it more than anything else. And from there, they really find that their path is more clear and they’re able to navigate it a lot easier.

Spence: Yeah, there’s some common denominators in how women and men experience struggles, such as having difficulty conceiving or carrying a pregnancy, but there is also hugely individual journeys and processes that go on. What are some of the benefits, are there some people maybe that benefit from how you help more than others or some people that maybe aren’t quite ready or that could really, really, really, really, really, really, really use some time with you or in something similar that you’re doing? I know that was about eight questions.

Sue: No, no, I get what you’re asking. Let me just share what’s on my heart there, when it

comes to the work I do, if someone wants to come in and kind of learn a different way of being in their life and navigating their fertility journey, the best kind of first step would be my heart-led living book and the fertility yoga classes. Those are kind of a nice introduction to the work I’m doing. For those that really want to go deep and look at all the nitty-gritty, clear those emotional blocks and those physical blocks and the energy blocks and through the intuitive healing, then I would say, yeah, let’s dive in and go deep there with the one-on-one work. Now, not everybody’s ready for that, and it’s not for everyone actually. And I always encourage people to actually want to trust their intuition so if you come to any website, any book, I don’t care what it is, if it’s mine or anyone else’s, when you’re reading through it, when you’re reviewing whatever you’re reviewing, feel into it, don’t think about it. Don’t think, all that sounds good or so-and-so said this, it’s like, that’s a very heady process. I always say feel it, feel it in your heart, feel it in your body, you’ll know there’ll be something there so there’ll be either a resonance or a discord. There’ll be a lightness or an expansion or an excitement or there’ll be a heaviness or a contraction or a density. It’s that expansion that we’re looking for, it’s that curiosity, it’s that wonderment, that’s the energy of intuition, that’s the energy of the heart. And when we can read through something, so if someone comes to my website and they’re looking at my intuitive coaching or my intuitive healing page, it actually says right on there, they need to feel a heart YES to work with me and I need to feel a heart YES to work with them. So, I’ve had it, where people who come to me more out of desperation and fear just wanting to try everything, and I actually say, you know, I don’t feel this is for you, I don’t feel I’m the one to support you. And I’m honest that way because I trust my intuition more than anything else now and that’s what I want for other people. So, if I can actually honor my intuition and say, okay, this isn’t the way, there’s a path for you, but it’s not this door. If I can support you in another way, let me know. But it’s like sometimes people just need help navigating that direction and that’s where joining with other people that are intuitive is helpful because then we can help confirm: yes, that’s what you’re getting, yes, you’re feeling that, you‘re sensing that, I feel that too for you. And it’s confirmation. It builds confidence for people.

Spence: I mean, even for people who aren’t going through a journey of cultivating their fertility and toward building family, at all things equal, it’s difficult sometimes to understand if you’re thinking or if you’re feeling. And then that next level would be intuition. Especially when you realize that you’re maybe having some difficulties conceiving, it’s been too long,

and your first step is basically always to go see your family doctor. So, there’s this mechanical process set in motion. So, when do people usually come to a point where they want to explore deeper or/and, two parts, when would you recommend them actually starting to lead more with their heart?

Sue: Like yesterday?[laughing]

Spence: Yeah, it was a rhetorical question.

Sue: We’re born intuitive, you can watch infants, you can watch children, they’re intuitively navigating the world, that’s how we’re naturally born. We are programmed to think, we’re programmed to be logical, we are programmed to weigh the pros and cons and that’s not natural for us. That’s not our natural process, that’s natural for the mind, it’s natural for the head. But we basically got to a point where we’re born leading with the heart, with the mind just kind of going along for the ride, and it switches to lead with the head and the heart is just kind of, you know, the passenger. And sometimes, you’ll listen to the passenger, sometimes you won’t. But my encouragement is to bring the heart back into the driver’s seat and let the mind be the tool as it’s designed to be, which is to support the heart. And that knowing, we have this knowledge in our head and we can gain knowledge, we can gain a lot of knowledge. And I know on fertility journey, there was more information out there when my journey started. It’s a lot more research you can do, and I know that a lot of people will desperately research because they’re desperate for an answer, and that’s like gaining knowledge. So, you have more knowledge than the head kind of gets in the way even more, because you think you know or you think you don’t know, you think something’s missing. If you can actually let go of what you think you know, let go of what you think you don’t know and then drop down into the heart space and say, I don’t know, I don’t know anything, but I’m curious. So, then you shift from knowledge in the head to knowing in the heart, and the knowing in the heart goes beyond the one the mind, it goes beyond the filters and the programming, it just is a knowing in the heart. And when you follow that knowing, you can take what the doctor says, you can take what your friend says as advice, you can take what you read and bring it into your heart and go what resonates, what feels good for me. And because there’s no recipe for anybody, for anything other than lead with your heart. That could be a recipe, everybody can do that, but where it leads you is going to be different.

Spence: Right. Some people must struggle with that though, you know, that difference between that heart and the head because the ego and the mind is very brilliant. And it can even trick you into thinking that you’re feeling. Did I say that all right?

Sue: Yeah, it’s very tricksy. And that’s part of my gift is actually, I can feel and sense the ego. When someone says something, I’m like, nope something’s off. That’s my little spidey senses, that’s my gift. So, to be able to work with somebody and say, well, I’m really feeling this, and I’m like, I’m not sure that that’s intuition. I get that you’re feeling drawn toward that, but there’s something else leading you there. It’s actually fear-based, it’s disguised as love, it’s disguised as guidance. So, as much as ‘get out of your head and into your heart’ sounds simple, it is not easy. It‘s not easy because we’ve been so programmed to the opposite, but the beautiful thing is, it’s a process of unwinding, the programming, opening the mind again and then remembering, remembering our natural way of being, which is intuitive, we’re all intuitive beings. And when we start to allow that remembering, it becomes easier. And then when we have other people confirmed, so when I work with people and I’m like, yep, no, it feels good, it feels like you’re on track, I agree that that’s your guidance, that’s your intuition, it’s bang-on, follow that, then they actually get that confidence and they start to really kind of trust it again.

Spence: You do distance consultation over Skype or phone or however it is?

Sue: Yeah.

Spence: This is my personal experience, but my best experience, it’s more framed as coaching, but over the years is for my spiritual self has been distance, over the phone. It‘s allowed me to sit in my underwear in a very comfortable spot in my room, where I can really feel safe and connect and be completely genuine, because as soon as you are front of someone even us, we put on a bit of a face, maybe you’re not because this is your thing, but I mean, we present ourselves. And you can kind of bring that down when you’re with someone, the phone doesn’t matter, doesn’t matter the connection, which is I’m so happy that you’re doing that over the phone. Because, otherwise, you’re unreachable.

Sue: Well, yeah, and that was the challenge when I actually had my studio is there was so

many clients I could see and then there were so many clients that I could actually reach me. There was a lot, but now, I have like more clients in the UK, in Germany, it’s like all over the world. And to dissolve all geographical boundaries by doing the distance healing is such a gift. But my ability, it’s grown – I think I did a session with you a long time ago when I first started to do the yoga therapy and the energy healing — it’s like ten thousand times more powerful and it blows my mind. I’m in awe of the miracles that happen, I can do in one session what I couldn’t do in ten before. And it’s powerful because I believe in my gifts so much. I’m owning it and I’m really trusting it. I can get right in underneath and clear stuff that has taken a lifetime for others to clear. I love that there’s options now for people, no matter where you’re living, to have support. And even support groups, I know there’s more virtual support groups and virtual meet–up groups and stuff. So, I love the support that’s out there now for fertility clients, but at the same time, it can be overwhelming. It’s just like, well, there’s so much more now, how do I choose. Here, go to the heart, choose there, and if there’s ten of them, look at the ten and maybe one jumps out of it, or maybe just one feels a little bit more highlighted than the other. In the beginning, your intuition can feel a little subtle and then it’ll actually start to become more obvious. And the more you trust it, it’ll become more and more obvious. It’s like learning to ride a bike again.

Spence: Awesome. We will get to some of those things like I suspect, you know. Meditative practice is one on the list of things that you can do to quiet your mind so your heart, that whisper can still be heard. Because it is quite quiet and it doesn’t scream at you like your ego, and it’s a skill set almost that you need to clearly develop. With my career as well, being similar in length and focus to yours, I have gotten to a place as well where the mechanics of what I do, which might have been your yoga, and it’s still an essential piece of things. But it‘s become less and less and it‘s something I want to get down path with everyone that I meet with as quickly as possible so we can get out of the mechanics of the body and have a system in place, gift-wrap that so we can surrender to the fact that we’re doing as much as we can in that realm so we can move into the heart-led or the more spiritual principles, timeless principles. In my experience, I expect essential to address and face and cultivate and practice to accomplish anything in life with being fulfilled while doing it. So, this what you’re talking about resonates so deeply. You know, it may be partly where I’m at in life, but it’s also I’ve just seen such profound effect, and it being an area, where it’s so clear to someone like yourself or myself who spends time a lot of women and men struggling to conceive that is just not

addressed and difficult to navigate. But isn’t there a nice trend in this direction because of people like yourself, and, you know, when someone comes to see me now versus ten years ago, they’ve gone to see their MD maybe and testing with their REI and all these things, which is important, you know, to get those balls in motion if that’s something that you want. But also, there’s just more of a knowing now that there’s more to this that I need to step into, and I think that’s largely because of people like you, being what, pioneer would be a term for it. Thank you for that. This energy you’re getting from Sue is Sue, that’s who she is, and I think she embodies where she wants people to step into. And that is my interpretation. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I, as well as everyone watching now, I’m sure for listeners, want to kind of maybe step into how can I quiet the noise in my mind, how can I step into this more heart– led living, and you’ve touched on a couple things, but is there some specifics that people can do? Is there seeds that you can plant that people can fertilize on their own?

Sue: Yeah, absolutely. There’s so many different ways that I can help people navigate from head to heart, but I can share some basic ones that that they can do on their own and practice. It’s practice. The more you practice these tools, the easier they’ll become. I’ll give you a little heads up or a hearts up, if you’re finding it one time it’s really easy and then another time it’s hard, it’s probably because you’re either afraid of what your heart’s answer will be or you’re resisting the process. And that’s okay. Just forgive yourself and let go, don’t judge. And just know that sometimes, it’ll actually be easier than other. So, a great way to practice the intuition piece is with stuff that you have no attachment to what the answer is. So, let’s say if you’re having dinner, do I have chicken or fish, you can kind of intuitively let your body and your heart kind of lead you and you’re not really attached to what the answer is, unless you don’t like fish, then maybe you will be attached to eat chicken. You can play with that because if you’re afraid of the answer, then often it’ll show up as a block. And then people will think, oh, it’s not working, I can’t hear. No, you’re afraid to hear, it’s probably you’re afraid to hear. There’s two exercises that are coming in, the one I’m just seeing is an exercise for the six chakras and an energy center here, and this energy center is associated with our insight or ability to see without the eyes, so our ability to see beyond the mind or beyond the eyes a physical eyes. And most people, when I work with my fertility clients, that chakra is wide open at the front and completely closed or almost closed at the back or depleted at the back. And what that indicates for me, and this isn’t just for fertility clients, I actually see it with a lot of people right now because they’re seeking answers outside themselves, they’re desperately

looking for something, they’re seeking a truth or whatever it is. When we’re trying to seek from the head, it often opens up that chakra and then depletes the back and then sometimes we can even feel pressure here or in the sinuses as well. When we’re seeking from the heart, there’s a balance in that energy center, so for those of you that are listening or watching, all you need to do is put one palm at the forehead, right between the eyebrows and then one palm at the back of the head, so we can do that right now, and then close your eyes and take some breaths. I’m actually energetically going to work with all of you. So, this is like evergreen, so no matter who or when you ever listen to this, I’m going to actually navigate and move your energy for you. But I’m going to give you the guidance and the idea of what you can do on your own and, at the same time, help facilitate it, so that you can have a felt experience of it. And when you have the felt experience, you can actually recreate it on your own. As you bring your awareness to the front on the forehead area, chances are you’re going to feel like wide open or strained or feeling dense or heavy or maybe then you have a little pain in the front of the head there, and at the back, you might even feel like it’s just kind of quiet or not much happening there. And what I’m going to invite you to do first instead of desperately seeking what we’re going to do is imagine closing the front. Now, initially, people might be like, no, I can’t do that because I won’t be able to see or I’ll miss something – I promise you won’t miss anything. And what we’re going to do is close it like you’re closing the curtains. So, imagine you could just close the curtains right underneath your palm there in the front, and we’re just going to close the front for now. And then, we’re going to invite a balance between the front and back of that energy center, and as I draw the energy back, you’re going to feel a shift, and that’s going to give you an experience of the shift that you can then create another time on your own. As I draw that energy back for you, you’re going to feel a little bit of a softening or less pressure in the front. So, there’s pressure to find the answer, pressure to seek is softening and letting go. Okay, now you can place your hands down, but keep your eyes closed. And now I’m going to invite you to imagine that in your head there’s an elevator and as the door opens to the elevator, you could step inside. And imagine there’s two buttons, head and heart, imagine you could push the button to heart and the doors close and it slowly brings you down, down into the elevator, down, down into the heart space. Take some breaths to allow that and imagine softening your heart space, your whole chest, your whole heart center. And imagine as the elevator arrives in the heart space, the door is open and you could just step out. And as you step out into your heart space, just notice what’s happening there. You may notice your heart center soft and open or you might feel that maybe it’s a little guarded or a

little bit closed, that’s okay. Then as you step fully into your heart space, imagine that you could open up the gates through the back of the heart center. So, between your shoulder blades, there’s these beautiful gates that open inward, and as you breathe just allow this beautiful energy to come in and fill your heart space, giving you a beautiful heart scrub. And we’re going to open the front of the heart, most people have more of an open front anyways, but imagine that front opening. And as you exhale, that energy releases out and loops around the side of you and back in. So, there’s this beautiful pattern of channel of light, channel of energy coming out through the front of your heart, back in through the back of the heart center, just moving with your breath. As we keep the back of the heart center open, that’s where we receive, that’s where we receive love, that’s where we’re open to experience life. And the challenge is when we close one part of our heart center, we often will let the hurt in and then it gets trapped in there, so we want to flush through the hurt, give ourselves permission to feel the sadness and the grief, just be witness to your fears, it’s okay. There’s no emotion that’s not welcome here. We just want to let those emotions wash through and be felt and experienced. And then I’m going to fill that space with just a bright, guiding light. It’s already there as a pilot light, I’m just going to make it even brighter for you. So, it becomes this beautiful lighthouse, illuminating your path, shining bright on the practitioners you’re meant to see, shining light on the books you’re meant to read, the supplements you’re meant to take, the modalities you’re meant to explore, and it’s going to basically illuminate your path to give you the most direct route to the baby that’s meant to come to you, your child. Let go of the timing and just trust. The path is already there, you simply need to take the step that’s in front of you. So, in this moment as you breathe, you can even ask your heart, what is the step that’s in front of me? And I encourage you to go with the first, very first answer that pops in. That’s usually the intuition. And then the ego or the ego mind will add on and kind of fill in the rest, so just go with the first thing, bring that into your heart, make a conscious choice to follow, and to see if you can actually remain in this space, letting the mind become the passenger, letting your heart take the lead, and like a recipe, you will be given one step at a time, one direction at a time, the heart works in the present moment only, giving you moment to moment directions. It’s a beautiful guide. Take a deep breath, and as you exhale, imagine you could stay seated there in the heart space. Keep your awareness there, seeing that beautiful lighthouse illuminating your path, and then bring your awareness back to your physical surroundings, keeping your awareness in your heart, then see if you can open your eyes while still holding yourself in that heart space. So, there’s this piece that comes when

we’re down in that space, and there’s this quiet that can come in the mind, and the egos very persistent, the egos very tricksy. And the ego will actually evolve based on your ability to tap into your intuition, so the more and more you get in touch with your intuition, the more and more the ego will evolve to try and convince you to get back into your head. I have it actually in my heart-led living book , I talk about how the ego hijacks even spirituality and it’ll use the language of love itself, so the discernment, the subtle discernment becomes essential over time, but this is a great exercise to kind of bring you down and begin. And just know that the ego is going to be there in the shadows, waiting to pounce on you and drag you down. In those moments you notice it, forgive, don’t judge, bring yourself back down, close that front of the chakra on the forehead if you need to and bring yourself back down into your heart center.

Spence: I really felt a shift from the front to the back in that first exercise, thank you for that, Sue. That was a great, great exercise. I feel good. If you didn’t take the time, you’re watching or listening, to do that, you can rewind, and maybe if you’re not driving would probably be the best time. Or working out at the gym, you can rewind it and find this little section again. That’s wonderful, thank you for the tool. So, from here, you said that is a practice. It’s not something you can learn to do and say, hey, I’ve got this new thing, and a week goes by and you’re diligent and then it fades from being a priority – where should this be on the type of task list of things to be doing in someone’s journey?

Sue: It should be in front of everything. Even with me, it’s like, when I get up in the morning, it’s like I tune into what I’m to eat, if I’m to shower first, like I just let my heart lead me in every moment. It’s like when I say heart-led living, I mean every aspect of life. Even with my supplements, I tune in as I’m sorting my supplements, I’m like, oh, for those two of those, none of those, it’s like it’s just my intuitions, like, do do do do. And it wasn’t that way all the time, it was that more of a conscious effort and a kind of tuning in. There’s quite a few different kind of tools that I teach, I do share a lot in my book, that people can kind of learn to practice and get the hands-on experience with it. Because the more you practice and have the experience of it, the more your trust and your confidence will be built up.

Spence: Right. If you wanted to work with Sue one-on-one, she may be able to even individualize these somehow to you and even from week to week, I don’t know where you’re at, and maybe something that needs to be thought through so you can feel, or is that some of

the process of working one-on-one – can you kind of give people a snapshot of what it would look like from picking up the phone?

Sue: Yeah. Well, the one-on-ones are more limited right now, just because of the nature of my work and the number of the people I’m supporting. So, the one-on-one is definitely, if you’re drawn to it, then let’s do it, and usually it’s one or two sessions and you’re off on your own and running. But the one-on-ones are really like if you’re feeling stuck and you need to get underneath there or there’s like these history anchors that you just can’t move through. Or if there’s some real dense trauma in the body that needs to be cleared, that’s the one-on-one work. The group work I do through my community is actually really powerful because then you’re there as a witness as I’m working with other people in the group calls, but you can listen back, there’s always new tools that come in. My gift is always evolving, there’s always new tools, and you can actually like ask a question live, you have live access to me every single week. That’s like the best way if you’re really wanting to kind of learn this and get this, and specific to what the individual needs in each moment, then the group work is probably a better way to go and it’s definitely more affordable than one-on-one work.

Spence: More affordable and defined that women connect with other women through that?

Sue: Yeah, the community is global, so there’s women and there’s a few brave men as well. It’s basically in listening to other people, share their stories, there’s a connection. It’s not even just the fertility stuff, it’s actually every aspect of life. So, someone may be struggling with fertility, but then having issues with their relationship or some women struggling with fertility and having issues with a physical ailment in the body. So, it’s me kind of intuitively guiding people, meeting them where they are and then supporting them in that moment. But it’s the practical work that actually gives you those fast-track sustained results.

Spence: Right. When you step into a holistic perspective of life, nothing can be removed from mattering. It’s not like, well, my uterus, I got to focus on that, or my testicles, whatever, you’ve got to take into consideration your happiness at work, the amount you breathe, what you’re eating. I believe with you ideally, it would all start from the heart and the spirit, because once you’re open, everything else good you’re going to do for yourself physically is going to be enhanced and more effective. That’s my experience.

Sue: Yeah, for sure. Can I just jump in and share, it’s one of those things that most people don’t hear about or even bring in through their awareness when it comes to fertility, it is their connection to their baby before it comes in physical form. I called them spirit babies, they’re known as spirit babies. I’m actually a medical intuitive, but I’m also a medium, so I can actually connect with the energy of the baby and receive messages. I’ve done a lot of work that way and that’s made a huge difference. I have just worked with a client yesterday who was having a miscarriage and giving her a deeper understanding, so kind of bringing, you got the physical, you’ve got the emotional and the mental aspects of it, the energy aspects of it and then that spiritual connection. So, that little baby was just like, I can’t come yet in this time, in this pregnancy, but she was really adamant. I’m coming, it’s just a matter of when. So, it gave that client a real sense of peace. There’s other times the message has come in and they just need certain things in place that can help them, and so there’s actually tangible like practical things that couples can do to help support the baby making the choice to come in. It’s kind of neat to bring that spiritual realm into it as well for some people that are open to that. You can get some really powerful information directly from your baby, like what do you need from me to help support you coming in, because it’s actually a lot more challenging for spirit to come into physical form than it is for us to leave and go back to spiritual form. It’s actually an easy transition at death, it’s a more challenging transition at birth, so sometimes they need extra support.

Spence: Yes, I’ve been through three of them, I believe that. Birth is a good term for birth. I love that. I’ve got two things, I love that you touched on meeting people where they’re at. People that come to you, they’ve searched for this heart-led direction, but in what I do, I sometimes get people that are very ready for this work as well and others that are seeing their REI and saying, well, there’s some research that acupuncture helps to help. Meeting people where they’re at is really important and I love that you have intuition for that. Because even the spiritual journey has got multi layers, I’m sure, and different things that might resonate a practice of gratitude for somebody, might open them up more. But what I do explain to people, personally from my experiences, that if I could boil down what acupuncture does or what I do when I try to work with someone is to open. Because I have found that, like you said, conception is largely about reception versus accomplishment. And that makes sense if you say that it’s tougher to get in than it is to get out, and I love that. You being able to speak

with spirit babies, I have a story that I share with women that have miscarried because I think there’s a common belief and it may or may not be true, I’m not an authority, but if a baby comes and there’s a miscarriage, that it’s a loss, that baby is gone. I had a story from a colleague from Texas and I’ve told it for years to women that have miscarried, just to maybe open them to an idea that something different might be happening. Because it’s exactly what it did to me. He said, you know, a woman that had two or three losses, I guess a friend maybe said, well, why don’t you go try Chinese medicine or acupuncture, it might help, I’ve heard it helped. So she did, and she worked with my friend, my colleague for some time and she conceived and she carried her pregnancy, which is great. Hopefully, the Chinese medicine helped. But about four or four and a half years later I guess, this woman comes back into my friends clinic and says, with this four-year-old, and says, you know, I just wanted to stop by, I haven’t been here in a long time and show you that I had fruit of our efforts. Last week he said something to me and that’s why I’m here, because it changed the way I looked at everything. He said, mom, out of the blue, he came to me and said, mom, do you remember the first time I came into your tummy. I had to go back because I forgot my fingers and toes. It changed me. When I heard that story, it changed me. I’m like, ah, really, so it could be the same spirit coming back later and you just said the same thing, so thank you.

Sue: I’ve had that experience over and over again. There’s actually some spirit babies that have come in and I just needed that experience in physical form for that short period of time, it was only a month or two, not even born. And that was exactly what their soul needed and then they were meant to move on. And then others were like, I came, the body wasn’t a fit, I had to leave. Or, I had to kind of try it, I was scared, I came, I jump back out. I’ve heard so many stories like that and got so many messages around that, like, I love that story. I remember when I asked my son, I was doing a doula training, when my son was really young, and they said that a lot of times, the kids that are less than 4 years old, who can articulate actually can remember their birth, and I’m, like, hey, didn’t you remember being born, he’s like, yeah, it was like this [mimicking the boy]. Something like that. And then at one point, he says something like, I know his personality and it was like this feeling of, like, yeah, you were never going to be ready, I just had to like wiggle my way in there. And I was like, even though I was ready on every other level, on some level I wasn’t and he picked up on that. It’s neat to have that confirmation again from the littles in our life when they have memories.

Spence: What I have seen, it helped with some subtle ways with a lot of women, is taking or planting the seed of the possibility that they don’t need to blame themselves that there’s something much larger may be going on, that they have to surrender to, and I love that. That is HUGE.